Curse

trankle · May 26, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

One of my biggest concerns is the vanquishing in HM. Considering that the Peacekeepers and White Mantle have well-rounded skills and usually appear in groups of 5-8, vanquishing the Krytan areas is more pain in the ass. Although this is compensated with allies spawning at the portals when you enter the explorable area, you still won't have enough firepower to fight the Peacekeepers and White Mantle. If you ever want to do vanquishing whatsoever in Kryta, you must do so BEFORE finishing up Eye of the North or Prophecies campaign.

I'm going to save you some typing. After every update, just copy the following text, and substitute the pertinent information:

"OMG guys! They updated the game! I hereby declare, without having done any testing whatsoever, the following activities impossible:
x
x
x
I now await the immediate rebutting of my points by the next poster who has any sort of common sense."

You're welcome.

Axeman002 · May 26, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Slydell

Half the people complaining about the WiK spawns making the game harder are the same ones who go: /LOL PvE IS SO EASY ITS USELESS

You forgot to add 'So is PvP'

dancing gnome · May 26, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty

Yes.

I pugged the bounty from ToA the other day, early on when everyone thought that the boss was sharing a spawn point near ToA instead of over by Kessex, so we had several attempts at making the boss spawn. A couple of guys (not including the party leader) quit after the first three tries and were replaced by new people, and suddenly the peacekeepers weren't there any more. When they left and were re-replaced, the peacekeepers came back.

IE One person in the party not having done enough of the WiK dialogues makes the whole group fail.

The implementation of the War in Kryta requirements reek of failure. It's the biggest mess the game has ever seen. Fulfilling the dialogue requirements takes a good couple of hours if you need to travel to Ascalon for the first time. It takes around an hour of reading and zoning if you dont.

On top of that, at different points in the dialogue the spawns in Kryta change (and people who say Kryta is very difficult are correct, the Peacekeeper spawns in Kessex Peak have several healers in mobs of 15+ npcs which are incredibly difficult to kill if you don't have a dedicated SF tank or similair). Fortunately once the dialogue is up to date the numbers decrease and the White Mantle that replace them in many areas are in smaller groups and MUCH easier to kill.

Personally I like the WiK content and I don't want to ever lose access to it, I feel like it improved my game in Kryta (a place I didn't really visit more than once). I sympathise with people who want it to return to a simpler land, but I don't want to sacrifice WiK for that to happen. I also think the complicated implementation is a hot mess, especially with different people at different stages of dialogue.

fireflyry · May 26, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

You could run across an MMORPG player in the desert dying of thirst, give them a glass of water, and they would complain it's too wet.

Magragoc · May 26, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

On top of that, at different points in the dialogue the spawns in Kryta change (and people who say Kryta is very difficult are correct, the Peacekeeper spawns in Kessex Peak have several healers in mobs of 15+ npcs which are incredibly difficult to kill if you don't have a dedicated SF tank or similair). Fortunately once the dialogue is up to date the numbers decrease and the White Mantle that replace them in many areas are in smaller groups and MUCH easier to kill.

Okay, this concerned me, so I just went and re-vanquished Kessex Peak to see what you're talking about, because I didn't recall groups like that.

I don't want to sound insulting here, but your Kessex Peak problems had everything to do with bad play on your groups part, not the new mobs. It was plain and simple overaggro. The mobs are the same size as elsewhere, but there a few overlapping patrols, which is where you ran afoul. Proper pulling and aggro management will solve all of these difficulties for you.

Kessex Peak is no more or less difficult than any other Kryta area, and I'd be the last guy to lay claims on being a good player.

Kashrlyyk · May 26, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

....anyone who's gotten to the point where they can beat Prophecies with only Henchmen will have zero problems with the Peacekeepers....

I very much doubt that lvl 10 Alesia as the only healer will be enough against lvl 20 dual bar enemies, especially if you only have henchmen and aren`t a healer yourself. And some enemies have a hard rez skill increasing difficulty even more.

What profession did you use for vanquishing? Any PvE skills used?

Charlie Dayman · May 26, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I very much doubt that lvl 10 Alesia as the only healer will be enough against lvl 20 dual bar enemies, especially if you only have henchmen and aren`t a healer yourself. And some enemies have a hard rez skill increasing difficulty even more.

Since we're this far into the life of Guild Wars, I can only guess the team who created the WiK content made it with the assumption people would be H/H'ing it on a regular basis. In any case, a protection monk hero + Alesia seems to get the job done in terms of keeping the group afloat.

Also, you wouldn't be limited to only Henchmen as you would HAVE to have heroes since beating EOTN is a requirement.

And then there's the chance you'll run into the mesmer ally (Margo, Morgo?) who does additional healing. I'm not sure if any of the other SB allies do healing.

Magragoc · May 26, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I very much doubt that lvl 10 Alesia as the only healer will be enough against lvl 20 dual bar enemies, especially if you only have henchmen and aren`t a healer yourself. And some enemies have a hard rez skill increasing difficulty even more.

What profession did you use for vanquishing? Any PvE skills used?

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this, please help me out: Are you
seriously this concerned about Prophecies-only players, or are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

To begin with, Alesia is level 15 in these areas, not 10, so there's no need to over-dramatize it.

Secondly, in order for the new Mantle to spawn, this hypothetical Prophecies-only player would have had to complete Hell's Precipice with only henchies; which is doable, but Sparks hurt, and he would have had to get very good, very quickly to do so. After that, do you honestly think that the new Mantle groups will provide any challenge whatsoever? Savant's hit softer than Sparks. Hard Resses? "We Shall Return!" is the only dangerous one, and that's a) rare and b) easy to plan for. What else is there? Death Pact Signet? We all know the downsides to that one. Vengeance? Don't make me laugh. Dunham is even in every outpost and he comes with Powerblock. If that isn't enough, I can't help you further.

Not only are the Peacekeepers in small groups because Kryta is balanced as six-man areas, but you get a self-ressing, useful ally in every zone.

As to my build, I did it with my Necro, my Derv, my Monk and my Ranger. As long as you, the player, can use your brain to make up for any shortcomings the Henchies may have, then the Peacekeepers are no threat at all. Nada, zero, zip, zilch. With or without PvE skills. I can't think of a single zone outside of the DoA where PvE skills are necessary, and the DoA is a cesspit of bad design.

When all is said and done, our hypothetical Prophecies-only player should have enough experience with the Henchies, that he'd realise that playing in Hard Mode would only make his life easier. So what again is your argument?

aspi · May 26, 2010, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Ahh Magragoc, Alesia is level 10 in lions arch btw

sixdartbart · May 26, 2010, 06:06 PM // 18:06

If you are doing this stuff in normal mode you don't need the low level henchies and if you are in H/M they aren't low level henchies so whats the problem?

fireflyry nailed it, some people are always going to complain when anything happens, or even when nothing at all happens.

Deakon · May 26, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I had just assumed that the whole WiK junk was to kill the 55 farming outside Bergen Hot Springs as well as the feather farming in other areas now inhabited by aggro-stealing spawns.

But yeah... there are some of us that would rather farm mats and tomes than run around reading NPC text conversations for some mediocre green weapons. Hopefully the "play-my-way or gtfo" crowd will be happy with the new "content." I find some comfort in knowing there's a few people still having fun in GW even if it's not me. I see one every so often... running around in their new costume... Don't know if I should bow, laugh or spit.

I can understand where the OP is coming from... I think new content is great but I don't understand (with all the unused areas I see on my charted map) why they need to place the new content on top of old content. Much less even as to why the new content must interfere with the old content.

Seriously though... The whole holier-than-though attitude displayed in threads like this one is starting to really turn me off. Why do you guys feel the need to belittle those who disagree with you? Why call them whiners when you yourselves do just as much (if not more) of the same thing? There's even a couple of mods here that do it. Does it make you feel better about yourself or something?

Kharmin · May 26, 2010, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

I had just assumed that the whole WiK junk was to kill the 55 farming outside Bergen Hot Springs as well as the feather farming in other areas now inhabited by aggro-stealing spawns.

But yeah... there are some of us that would rather farm mats and tomes than run around reading NPC text conversations for some mediocre green weapons. Hopefully the "play-my-way or gtfo" crowd will be happy with the new "content." I find some comfort in knowing there's a few people still having fun in GW even if it's not me. I see one every so often... running around in their new costume... Don't know if I should bow or spit.

Please don't spit.

I've only been on for about 1-1/2 years, so yes, I am enjoying this new content as well as the rest of GW. I haven't maxed out titles and whatnot as I am a casual player with a job and family that take up a lot more of my time. Having said that, yes, I got the costume because I wanted to be a more "active" participant in this. My choice, obv, and certainly not for everyone.

I feel badly for those who have been here from inception and aren't getting the things that they have been pining for; rather, they have to sort through new content.

MagmaRed · May 26, 2010, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

If you're so concerned about Minotaur Horns, go farm them in the Talmark Wilderness. There are still herds of them out there.

This. As I said earlier, not a single 'farm' has been destroyed. Some of them have been altered, but all of them are still possible. Minotaurs, Caromi, Skales, etc. all have places you can farm them. Undead too, as there are a ton of places undead show up. Does it make things slower? Maybe, but as I said earlier, the game is not about farming. Sure, farming is a large part of it for many people. They do it to obtain money to buy things they want or to max titles. But nothing requires farming. If the only thing you have left to do is farm, then maybe move to PvP or a different game.

In fact, the change has introduced NEW ways to farm. Farm the daily Wanted quest, the Courier, or the greens. And don't forget, the White Mantle Emblems and Badges can be used for collectors.

Deakon · May 26, 2010, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmin

Please don't spit.

I've only been on for about 1-1/2 years, so yes, I am enjoying this new content as well as the rest of GW. I haven't maxed out titles and whatnot as I am a casual player with a job and family that take up a lot more of my time. Having said that, yes, I got the costume because I wanted to be a more "active" participant in this. My choice, obv, and certainly not for everyone.

I feel badly for those who have been here from inception and aren't getting the things that they have been pining for; rather, they have to sort through new content.

Sorry... I was editing my post. There's nothing wrong with folks wearing their costumes. I guess what I'm trying to say is this... given the state of the game over the past year and a half, it's going to take more than some half-assed new content to get me excited about GW again. But then again, I barely even do the Zaishen dailies. I was happy mindlessly killing things over and over again to rank-up in titles, buy some nice mods for my heroes etc. etc. and bide my time until GW2.

In other words... I liked GW before they changed everything. And as silly as some think I am for that, I think they're just as silly for getting excited about WiK.

HM = Good idea. Didn't interfere with existing content.
Zaishen Dailies = Good idea. Didn't interfere with existing content.
(insert half a dozen more examples)
WiK = Not a good idea. Interferes with existing content. I agree with OP.

jazilla · May 26, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Just farm them on another character that doesn't have access to the WiK yet.
/thread

Kharmin · May 26, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

Sorry... I was editing my post. There's nothing wrong with folks wearing their costumes. I guess what I'm trying to say is this... given the state of the game over the past year and a half, it's going to take more than some half-assed new content to get me excited about GW again. But then again, I barely even do the Zaishen dailies. I was happy mindlessly killing things over and over again to rank-up in titles, buy some nice mods for my heroes etc. etc. and bide my time until GW2.

In other words... I liked GW before they changed everything. And as silly as some think I am for that, I think they're just as silly for getting excited about WiK.

HM = Good idea. Didn't interfere with existing content.
Zaishen Dailies = Good idea. Didn't interfere with existing content.
(insert half a dozen more examples)
WiK = Not a good idea. Interferes with existing content. I agree with OP.

NP, no offense taken

I see the edited post and I do like the idea of WiK being in unexplored areas rather than existing ones; however, that probably would entail more coding than they were willing to throw at this.

I can appreciate players who have been on longer than I, being upset/disappointed/[insert favorite term here] with the WiK ... yeah, it's a nice "prequel" to GW2, but at what cost to the long-term player base. It's as if some marketing study (if one were done) were greatly skewed.

sixdartbart · May 26, 2010, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharmin

I do like the idea of WiK being in unexplored areas rather than existing ones; however, that probably would entail more coding than they were willing to throw at this.

But see thats basically what they did, several if not most of the areas that they have ADDED NEW CONTENT for are in unused areas.
Aside from the chineese bot population that has been infesting these areas for years and the Troll above who in one sentence says he wants to spit on other players that have things he doesn't or may be enjoying themselves and then decries "The whole holier-than-though attitude" I don't think these areas are used for more then the first passthrough while doing proph quests so no biggy adding something new to them imo.

New players exploring these areas for the first,second or tenth time will not be effected and even the {"hardcore"lol} Feather farmers are not forced to advance the new content to the point that they have to stop running their macros to kill tengu.

People bitch when they don't get anything new, people bitch when they do get something new, some of these people surely bitch while they are sleeping, sadly thats just the way it is.

Kashrlyyk · May 26, 2010, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

To begin with, Alesia is level 15 in these areas, not 10, so there's no need to over-dramatize it.

Already mentioned in Lion`s Arch she is lvl 10, in Beetletun she is lvl 12. 8 lvl difference means lvl 20 elementalists will deal +50% damage against her.

Quote:

After that, do you honestly think that the new Mantle groups will provide any challenge whatsoever?

You are ignoring that they have good builds with Skills and Weapons from different Campaigns and two professions unlike every enemy in "Hells`s Precipicie" and you ignore that in "Hell`s Precipie" henchmen are lvl 20 with elite skill not lvl 10 - 15. That you have a protector monk additionally to a healer monk is another difference between the last mission of Prophecies and WiK. Your argument that someone who beat "Hell`s Precipie" with henchmen will obviously beat WiK with the provided henchmen is void in NM.

Quote:

..When all is said and done, our hypothetical Prophecies-only player should have enough experience with the Henchies, that he'd realise that playing in Hard Mode would only make his life easier. So what again is your argument?

That a game should not be easier in "HARD MODE" than in "NORMAL MODE" and ANet obviously didn't think WiK through to avoid that!!! And that beating a foe in Prophecies NM should not be so frustratingly hard that you NEED to buy another Campaign to get heroes and skills.
You mentioned that Kryta is balanced around six characters. NO, it is balanced around 6 characters having around the same level as the foes, which in NM with henchmen is definitely not fulfilled in WiK. Which is the main critique I had in this thread.

Yawgmoth · May 26, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

The main issue here is that new content actually takes away from us the old content. New may be "better" for some reasons but still... taking away content feels wrong.
In fact it was a problem with whole GW quest system - just thing what does completing a typical sidequest do for you? The rewards are almost always completely negligible but there are permanent consequences that your character cannot access that quest's spawns which permanently gimps the character! I have learned many years ago to never complete any quests if I don't absolutely have to - having the option to abandon or pick it up again at will is invaluable.
But WiK content is not just a quest you can abandon at will, it's a permanent change to a large part of the game's world. We don't know yet how it will finish but it's a potential serious issue.

I was about to post a QQ thread (lol) about this issue hurting my ability to vanq Prophecies but first I decided to do something I haven't dome in years - I went to actually try if it's any hard, and vanquished most of the Kyrtan explorables! SuperLOL - I couldn't get myself to doing it for YEARS, as singleplayer H/H is incredibly boring and finding pugs for vanquishing is practically impossible, but the new changes made me do it!
Still I find it somewhat wrong to have the old content permanently taken away from me. I hope that when the war ends there will be some option to return to old spawns, but in that case it would probably mean not being able to come back to WiK spawns.
Such is the suckage of having new content running on old areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That a game should not be easier in "HARD MODE" than in "NORMAL MODE" and ANet obviously didn't think WiK through to avoid that!!! And that beating a foe in Prophecies NM should not be so frustratingly hard that you NEED to buy another Campaign to get heroes and skills.
You mentioned that Kryta is balanced around six characters. NO, it is balanced around 6 characters having around the same level as the foes, which in NM with henchmen is definitely not fulfilled in WiK. Which is the main critique I had in this thread.

oh, and don't you need EotN to enable the WiK content? EotN gets you heroes who can easily pwn NM WiK content, 1 human +3 level 20 heroes doesn't need 2 low level henchies.

Raven Wing · May 26, 2010, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I just ran through all the dialogues on a secondary char to open up WiK content. During the 3 required runs to the Shining Blade Camp (with 3 heroes and 4 hench from ToA) I had 2 shadowy remnants and a forest minotaur horn dropping for me. That was in Talmark, on places where the original monsters arent changed by WiK. So for now, you can still farm these items with ease. I believe there are still plenty of places suitable to farm anything you wish. Yes the minos in black curtain are hunted down by peacekeapers, but then go farm them in talmark instead